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 Class Forums - Summer 2010
 PHIL 100-971 - Introduction to Philosophy
 Consistency: What's It Got to Do with Knowledge?		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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Stephanie Miller
Fledgling

13 Posts
Posted - Jul 30 2010 :  2:34:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I think that is one of the important things that is being taught here. I was reading someone's essay and they had said something about people doing the right thing, but I made a point to say that I think it isn't all about just doing what is right; it is about learning for yourself whether or not something is good or right, and acting upon that. If you just go by what people tell you is right, then it might not be. I think that unless you find out for yourself and logically think about what really is right and good, you have no way to be sure that you're doing the right thing.

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Andrew Koziuk
Apprentice

34 Posts
Posted - Jul 31 2010 :  09:10:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you are thinking logically about the right thing, then how would you know what is "right and good?" I think that the reason we have our beliefs is because they are passed down from our parents or other people and that is how we are raised. Even today I still listen to my parents and think that they know more then I do because they have gone through it before.

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Tom Trelogan
Forum Admin

1374 Posts
Posted - Jul 31 2010 :  5:02:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Andrew, you've certainly put your finger on the reason we have the beliefs we do if by that you mean what's causally responsible for our having those beliefs, at least at the beginning. The question, though, is whether it isn't important for us to have more than an explanation of our having the beliefs that we do. Wouldn't you like to have a reason in the sense of grounds for believing the things you do?

By the following, I certainly do not mean to suggest that your parents have lied to you or even that they have "passed down" to you beliefs that are false, but consider the following analogy: suppose someone has been lied to systematically about something all his or her life; in these circumstances it's perfectly understandable that he or she believes all those lies, but even if there's a reason why he or she believes them in the sense that we can say what has caused him or her to have those beliefs, it doesn't follow that he or she has reasons for believing those things in the sense of grounds. If asked "Why do you believe those things?" and the only answer a person can give is "That's what I've been told," then he or she has no rationally compelling grounds for thinking that they are true.
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Andrew Koziuk
Apprentice

34 Posts
Posted - Aug 01 2010 :  6:08:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tom, that is very interesting, and I have not thought about that before. However, I think that is what any person would say to the question "Why do you believe those things?" What other answer could you give? For example if someone is brought up going to church and was taught certain religious beliefs, then the answer he or she would give to that question above would be, "that is how I was raised and how I was taught to live."

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Tom Trelogan
Forum Admin

1374 Posts
Posted - Aug 01 2010 :  7:05:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, you're right: most people believe at least many of the things they believe for no good reason. But what other answer could you give? Talk to a number of theologians, and you'll learn that there are people who make it their lives' work to get beyond the point at which they're just repeating things they've heard so as to have real grounds for their convictions -- even in matters having to do with theology. The interesting part of theology from this point of view is rational theology as opposed to revealed theology.
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Aaron Mund
Apprentice

37 Posts
Posted - Aug 02 2010 :  09:14:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One problem I have seen with the "Why do you believe those things?" question is that the person who asks the question doesn't always want to know the answer. They just don't care. I have been a part of many discussions on many different topics in which the people I spoke to did not want to listen to the evidence I could offer in support of the things I said or the other reasons I have for believing the things I do.

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Tom Trelogan
Forum Admin

1374 Posts
Posted - Aug 02 2010 :  09:32:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This isn't a problem with the "Why do you believe those things?" question. It's a problem with the people who ask this question purely rhetorically, i.e., as a way of saying: "I don't believe those things," or "Nobody believes those things. Get real!" or something else along those lines.
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Andrew Koziuk
Apprentice

34 Posts
Posted - Aug 02 2010 :  5:10:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with you two that people who ask that question really do not care at all. I think that when people ask that question, the people listening almost just zone out because they think their way is better then everyone else's and do not really care because their beliefs probably are not going to change if they have been raised this way. However, there are some people who do change and it kind of makes me wonder why.

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Tom Trelogan
Forum Admin

1374 Posts
Posted - Aug 02 2010 :  8:38:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Golly, I wouldn't say more than that some of the people who ask "Why do you believe those things?" don't want to hear an answer, namely those who ask it purely rhetorically. But don't you think that some really do?
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Andrew Koziuk
Apprentice

34 Posts
Posted - Aug 02 2010 :  9:31:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am sure some do! Maybe those are the people who convert to different religions. It just seems to me the conversations I have had in which people ask that question are conversations in which they just ask it to argue or to say that their way is better and bring the other person down. However, I am sure some listen and actually take the answer to heart and think about it -- just none of the ones I have been in. More evidence of how times have changed.

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Cassie Vrooman
Apprentice

32 Posts
Posted - Aug 08 2010 :  1:10:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have wondered, quite a few times, if a person really wants to hear my answers when they ask for a reason for my beliefs. Very rarely have I engaged in conversation in which both parties were open to listen and converse on a topic. I find that when people ask that question, rather than looking for my answer, they use it as a gateway to talk about what they think and why their way is correct. So it's not so much that they don't want to hear what I have to say; it seems more that they just want to talk about what they think.

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John Koban
Apprentice

40 Posts
Posted - Aug 08 2010 :  10:16:52 PM  Show Profile  Click to see John Koban's MSN Messenger address  Send John Koban a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
That does seem to be the case with some people. Especially in a heated conversation, it seems to me that both parties usually repeat the same things over and over again with no real interest in what the other individual is saying. The goal for many arguers, it seems, is to state the points they are putting forth and then move on. It is true that a conversation between two parties who are both actively engaged in the conversation yields much better fruit, and what a beautiful thing it is.

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