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Bill Wiltrack
Apprentice

20 Posts

Posted - Jun 24 2007 :  04:27:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When death was a way out…

Philosophy is often described as looking at something common in an uncommon way.

With the help of philosophical writings and a certain philosophical discipline I reach a point, at times, where I am certain that we never experience death. From an assured philosophical perspective, we never die.

If you have never felt or understood this perspective I cannot offer to bring you to it. In a linear way, I can point to an abridged Einstein’s Specific Theory of Relativity theory that states, all time exists at the same time in a landscape of time and space that rests in a field of the fourth dimension; The Holy Bible, which refers to an endless purgatory, which, at times, I believe is our existence, our repetitive lot that cradles, for most of us glimpse of heaven in addition to the certainties of hell; Ouspensky’s numerous works which describe and refer to the fourth dimension; and Gary Zukav’s book, The Dancing Wu Li Masters where Zukav uses a flashlight in an illustration of time and space.

If we don’t die, if some of us are able to occasionally view ourselves living this, or a somewhat similar life, over and over again, is there a higher purpose in that end? Is there purpose contained within that plateau, whether we call it a scientific theorem, heaven, the fourth dimension, or any of a plethora of other descriptions? Is there a purpose to the spirit or are we the penultimate byproduct in a microcosmic self-observation which is an end in itself?

Da5id
Journeyman

52 Posts

Posted - Jun 28 2007 :  11:06:39 AM  Show Profile  Send Da5id a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
"...is there a purpose?"

I wonder why I should have, or want to have, a purpose that I didn't choose for myself.

But, hey Bill!

Have you heard of the VHEM, the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?

I started a thread on another philosophy forum about this a while back.

To make a long story short, VHEM advocates that humanity should voluntarily become extinct, through the simple expedient of not having any more children. They argue that the other species of this planet would, in general, benefit from our extinction.

I took this as a challenge!

What can our species accomplish, as a species, that could justify our continued existence?

Of course, we all face the same question as individuals considering our individual existence.

Should I even want my mind to go on forever? I'm not sure that I should. Do you suppose that the impossibility of imagining non-existence motivates people to believe to believe that their minds won't die? To some extent "survival" (as the theory that minds don't die has sometimes been called) seems to be a non-falsifiable proposition. I can't investigate it, but I might decide to believe it anyway...but why?

Dave
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Wayne Nirenberg
Fledgling

15 Posts

Posted - Jan 19 2009 :  05:58:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill,

It's two years later and I suspect you're probably not around to read this but I was a little moved by this idea.

I'd never thought of experiencing life in those terms. I don't think infinitely dividing is quite as romantic as you're making it out. I mean even if there's actually no point in time that you can point to as your last because there's no point in time that you can say, "this is not me", or, "I'm dead", you still pass out. In that sense, actually, it seems to me that you can't ever say when you're asleep either really. It is an interesting idea. A bit like Zeno's half steps to the wall without ever really reaching it.

I think though, another reason I like it is because it sort of points to the idea that even consciousness is reducible, while the idea of desire or free-will seems to be just a complex version of identity, which doesn't seem to be.

I guess what I mean by this is that you can't tell an ant, for example, that its life isn't worth anything. We use the idea that our recognition is more complex to justify not caring about the ant but its fight for survival is just as urgent to itself as ours is to us. That will to survive doesn't change with the complexity of consciousness. So, as we die, we never die because we always consider whatever is conscious that we glimps the world from to be us.

Moving thought.

Edited by - Wayne Nirenberg on Jan 19 2009 06:11:45 AM
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