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Old Hand

52 Posts

Posted - Dec 19 2011 :  6:32:47 PM  Show Profile  Send Da5id a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote

Choose a proposition, any proposition. (Yes, I am trying to keep a "light" tone here.) Call the proposition P.

Proposition M: I know, without the possibility of error, that P.

Now, can M be true if P is not necessarily true?

Of course, my claim that M is true might be impossible to justify, but if it is justifiable, does it not entail P?

Two other questions:
1. If P is "Obama will win a second term," could M possibly be true. (I don't mean to imply he can't win; I wonder about the philosophical implications of puportedly infallible predictions.)
2. Would P have to be true, a priori? (E.g., 2 + 2 = 4)


William Goetz

32 Posts

Posted - Feb 25 2015 :  11:45:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
can you have an infallible predication that can be determined in the future?
it is here confirmed, Obama did win a second term, no longer a possibility, but reality. so the two points in time are split one side a belief, other side, results. Math aside for necessary truths are usually results or desired outcomes. "We will never have a black president"...time..."Obama is a black president".

Thus two points in time can produce results. Infallible is nothing with out it's second part, the result...So 2 + 2 = 3.9999999999999999999999 (when you question the result its probably a possibility, not necessarily necessary)
mostly, why is 3.99 significant, what's going on; why will we never have a black president, what's going on?

This is why I have hard time initially approaching and trusting philosophy. The implications have become too strong to judge based on simple predications. People have to tell me story for me to understand. A beginning middle and end, with a persuasive conclusion and engaging rhythm. Then at least I will be entertained and good story tellers usually don't make you judge the infallible predications, they may be projecting fallacies unto you. However you walking away with a bigger story, hopefully a positive directing one. And here I'm talking about story tellers as a powerful speaker that you would listen too. Most have role models and experts to listen too.

Thus P and M need an S... situation, something to ground us in direction
P could be anything true is highly restricted compared to M not having any restrictions on P.
Yes, it can be made true through the dimension called time as two points of predication must exist.
However, a priori extended outside of math would be necessarily true (P in Prop. M) IF proposition P has justification followed by an additional set showing the necessity. (P in Prop. M -> justification of P)...this is where the story teller makes the justification that turns out necessary. Continue to justify the justification and you find evidence that would build a whole case, or a whole idea.

In addition, the thing is purported is not purporting. the difference between the philosopher and the story teller is that one experiences the past, while the other is making the future and speaking the past all in the present. I think he can win, and he already did, this is not philosophy, this could be a long story...some books may do justice, but experiencing a book is not the same as experiencing a story teller; the true justification may never be know, which one is conceivably better, or more true. Only that without people we wouldn't have books, so I'm going to try to get to the source and confront the actual ideas of these books; than I could better justify my opinion.

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