| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Tom Trelogan |
Posted - Mar 28 2011 : 06:53:06 AM
This is our third big question. Let the discussion begin.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nick Urbaniak |
Posted - May 07 2011 : 09:12:21 AM
Adam: In the case you've presented, I don't think your need has been overridden because if it were truly a necessity -- as your need for food and water are -- then you didn't desire what you needed enough, and that's why you were able to spend money on something you merely desired instead of on something you needed
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| Adam Yost |
Posted - May 06 2011 : 5:31:58 PM
In response to Spenser: let's say paying rent is a necessity and I desire more than anything to see a rock concert being given by a band that broke up and recently got together for one final concert. Let's just assume, for the sake of the argument, that this is a true desire. If I spent my rent money on a front row ticket, would that not be desire overriding necessity?
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - May 03 2011 : 12:10:41 PM
Spenser: I agree that instinct does and most of the time will trump desire, though I think they can be connected. I think it is instinct to survive, but generally we do want to survive. It's instinct to find a mate and procreate, and as sentient beings we turn the instinct to find a mate into the desire for love.
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - May 01 2011 : 01:28:48 AM
Megan: You bring up a very interesting question!
Does instinct ever trump desire, or are they connected somehow?
It's very difficult to say if they are connected or not. It seems that they can correlate in some ways but not in others. Do we have an instinct to survive or a desire to survive? Do we have an instinct to find love or is it desire to find love? To be honest, I think these things are not connected and that instinct does trump desire. Instinct is something that is "hardwired in" whereas desire seems to be something that we acquire through experiences. What is your take on this?
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 30 2011 : 12:15:28 AM
Spenser: I agree with you that not everything one does is necessarily tied to desire. But I'm having a little trouble with your example. I don't think a victim of a crime ever desires to be a victim, but if someone becomes a victim can he really control that? He is not the one in direct control of the situation. He has no say about whether or not the perpetrator of the crime picks him as the victim.
As for the victim's choice in harming or killing the perpetrator, I think it's human instinct to protect ourselves in whatever way we can -- which leads to yet more questions: does our instinct always trump our desires? Are our instincts and desires somehow correlated? If so. how are they connected?
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 4:17:33 PM
Megan: I think the desire to test the bounds of our freedom and individuality is an inherent part of being human. Although as I said earlier I don't believe that everything we do can be tied back to desire. Do the victims of crimes desire to be victims? I don't believe they do. If a victim defends himself and ends up his attacker did he desire to kill that person -- possibly to protect himself and others around him. I think in that split second it is probably the instinct to survive that leads to what happens.
I think desire ties into a lot of day-to-day things, but I don't think it's the driving force behind everything we do.
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 4:02:36 PM
Spenser: Do we attempt to do what we can because we desire to test the bounds of our freedom and individuality? Maybe even to test our ability to do that which pushes those bounds?
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 3:51:46 PM
Adam: I think desire can, and often does, override necessity. Again, any college student can be used as an example: how many times does the average college student forgo sleep in order to do what he or she desires? Whether the desire is a desire to study or a desire to party, this sort of thing happens all the time.
What do you think?
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 3:47:54 PM
Megan: I do think there are other motives behind the things we do. I don't believe that everything we do can be attributed to desire, or to necessity for that matter. I think a lot of what we do, we do simply because we can; not that we feel compelled in some way but rather that we test the bounds of our freedom and individuality.
Adam: It seems quite possible to me that desire can override necessity, however it would depend greatly on what we mean by necessity. Are you thinking of something that is required? Is necessity something you can't live without, or is it even something you can't avoid?
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| Adam Yost |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 3:03:21 PM
Is it reasonable to think that desire has the power to override necessity?
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 3:01:24 PM
Spenser: going back to my question, can there ever be other motives behind our doing what we do? Can some ulterior motive override our desires?
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 1:24:01 PM
Megan: I think we can only ignore necessity for so long. Yes we can put things off, but eventually I think things catch up with us, like sleep. I do however agree that some desires can overcome others and in those instances necessity becomes a moot point. As far as bad decisions are concerned, that seems up in the air to me since everyone is different.
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 11:25:59 AM
Spenser: What about those times when we ignore necessity? I'll use your example. I'm working long into the night, and I realize that yes, I need sleep because I have a big day tomorrow, But I also want to finish whatever it is that I'm doing. So I ignore the need for sleep and keep on doing whatever it is that I'm doing no matter the consequences. Is that just one desire overcoming another desire or is it simply a bad decision made while one is very sleepy?
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 10:29:21 AM
Megan: I think you raise a very good question!
I honestly believe that we do things because they turn us on. They excite us and pique our interest. I think the feeling of being turned makes us desire them more. I do also think there are other motives behind the things we do as well. What I have in mind is the fact that sometimes we do things out of necessity.
For example: we all need to sleep. It's possible that we can desire to sleep but I also think it's possible to sleep out of necessity. You could be working hard long into the night and before you know it you're exhausted and have a big day the next morning so you need to sleep otherwise you won't have enough energy for the day ahead.
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 09:49:00 AM
I have a question: do we do the things we do because we desire to do them or do we do them because they turn us on? Or may there be other motives behind our doing what we do?
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| Megan Sargent |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 09:46:07 AM
Bleys: It's not just the smell of coffee I'm desiring. I do enjoy and desire the taste of coffee. If the smell were all I desired, I would never drink coffee.
I think there are many things involved in why people desire what they desire. For the florist it could be an intense interest in plants, or it could be the desire to create beautiful bouquets, or knowing that what you make is going somewhere special. I'm sure the smell of roses plays a part, because if florists hated the smell they probably wouldn't be very happy florists.
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 01:09:31 AM
Bleys: I do understand the example you use. However my next question is this: can you be turned on by something without having a desire for it? You said that "to be turned on is to experience a strong emotion." A florist has a strong emotion when he or she smells a rose, so now the florist is turned on. Wouldn't it then make sense that the florist would desire a rose? He or she is turned on by the experience so shouldn't he or she desire more of that experience?
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| Bleys Andromeda-Focht |
Posted - Apr 27 2011 : 6:10:23 PM
Spenser: I think it is very easy to desire something and not be turned on by it. That happens when your emotional "high" does not follow being turned on.
Megan's example of the coffee is simple in my mind. She is desiring the smell of the coffee, not the taste. If not the smell of the coffee, then I think there is something that she associates with coffee and greatly enjoys. This is very similar to a florist who wakes up in the morning and has a desire to smell the roses, but no desire to taste the roses.
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| Spenser Loos |
Posted - Apr 27 2011 : 3:03:58 PM
Bleys: After reading your post I have a question to ask you. Are you trying to say that being turned on is a conditioned response? You state that when a person is being turned on they are making a special connection or feeling a particular way which can be either positive or negative. You also say that desire is the anticipation of the sensation of being turned on. Is it possible to have a desire for something in the absence of being turned on by it? By this I mean can you desire a thing without being turned on by it? I believe Megan tried to answer this in a post of hers in which she claimed that every morning she wakes up, she wants a cup of coffee, and yet she is not turned on by the coffee itself. Do you agree?
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| Scott Crawford |
Posted - Apr 27 2011 : 2:01:28 PM
Spenser: I think you've brought about another good question to consider: "have you ever desired something only to find, once you've gotten what you wanted, that it was it something you did not like?"
I think that after you have desired something for a while and then realize that it is something you no longer desire, you then begin to have a new desire regarding what you've learned you no longer desire. I guess a different way to say that is this: we learn from our mistakes and then move on to newer and better things (and desires).
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